Altar questions

[Amalthea]

Hello! I've been doing a lot of reading as I've started this new path but I have two nagging questions regarding altars.

The first is regarding the athame. I've seen some that are made entirely out of wood or bone. Does the blade need to be metal? Are there "perks" to one material over another?

The second is regarding the altar itself. I've read in books that the altar is something that is included in the circle during rituals. Yet I see people who have their altars on shelves or dressers. How does that work if they can't cast a circle around the altar?

Thanks so much for answering this newbie

[Shawn Blackwolf]

Simple answer...

1. Depends on which tradition you are from

2. Depends on what ceremony or ritual you are performing

Complex answer

1. Traditional Wicca, would say the athame should be made
of metal, iron, with the handle wrapped in black leather,
or if not that, painted black, or black cloth...

Some would even go so far as to tell you to learn how to forge
your own athame, so it would contain your energy signature.

This is as well the case in certain Witchcraft traditions, other
than Wicca, and certain Ceremonial Magic(k) traditions.

There are traditions, such as my Faery Tradition, where the
athame is made of antler handle with a copper blade.

Silver, in some traditions, has been used.

I have made one with a deer bone handle, and wood blade,
for work with certain entities.

2. What "perks" or reasons for the use of certain materials, or not?

Speaking from my Faery Tradition, my friends and co - workers, those
of the Otherworld, find iron dis-harmonic with their vibration.

A copper athame runs the Faery Current of blue fire better than any
other material and the antler handle comes from our ancient code.

(Blue Fire precedes matter and is the combined force of the astral
currents of earth, air, fire, and water.)

Iron is/was used in many traditions because it is/was believed to keep
demons or dis-harmonic entities at bay, or to open and close a portal
to the Otherside, or seal a circle.

Silver can be used to open/close the elemental doors in my Faery Tradition.

Bone contains collagen and is crystalline in it's composition. It is also
toroidal in it's structural shape and based on the phi ratio in it's natural
form. As some bone is very hollow, it can run energy without "interference".

As well, it can be filled with sand and crushed stone, or crystal if desired.

Wood is the same as silver, to open/close elemental doors.

Yet for my use, as an athame, I can also use it for psi vamps.

Now, regarding the altar placement.

Permanent altars in a room, house, temple, or outdoors can be
anywhere applicable to your tradition and/or desired by you.

Temporary altars, for specific purposes, can and are set up in specific
ways and perhaps even directional orientation regarding elemental
doors or watchtowers or geo-mantic lines of power.

If one needs to circumnavigate the altar, you are correct, it can neither
be up against a wall nor would one necessarily have room to perform
a "Great Rite" upon the altar. (enough said about *that*)

I hope that helps!

[Ashrend]

Regarding altar, i have mine against the wall. But if i needed a circle with my altar i would use salt water to sprink a circle around the table including the wall as well as cleanse the area just to be safe. Thats how i would get around the circle thing, that or like blackwolf said a temporary alter can be made up. For the athame, iv seen many types too and like black wolf said it depends on your traditions and/or personal preferances for wht works best for you. I dont have an athamr yet but im building my wand from materials that feel right to me, not materials iv been told to use

fire and flames

[Corbin]

regarding the athame. I've seen some that are made entirely out of wood or bone. Does the blade need to be metal? Are there "perks" to one material over another?

The second is regarding the altar itself. I've read in books that the altar is something that is included in the circle during rituals. Yet I see people who have their altars on shelves or dressers. How does that work if they can't cast a circle around the altar?

Thanks so much for answering this newbie

Hiya. Some personal opinions ..

1) Whichever material you feel "right" really or more importantly doesn't feel "wrong". I (for example) have dabbled with many types of athame yet currently use a simple antler tine bound with leather.


2) There is often a subtle difference between an altar and a shrine. I think of shrines like hearths; spiritual foci of house and home. Altars are often "working" altars; used , often erected specifically for use in ritual (with spiritual and symbolic connotations). There is a great deal of crossover between the two things, you can use either, neither or both dependant on your practice and what feels right. I've always found the best guide is discovering what is right for you rather then deciding what is wrong for other people (if that makes sense).

[Amalthea]

Regarding altar, i have mine against the wall. But if i needed a circle with my altar i would use salt water to sprink a circle around the table including the wall as well as cleanse the area just to be safe. Thats how i would get around the circle thing, that or like blackwolf said a temporary alter can be made up. For the athame, iv seen many types too and like black wolf said it depends on your traditions and/or personal preferances for wht works best for you. I dont have an athamr yet but im building my wand from materials that feel right to me, not materials iv been told to use

fire and flames

This last weekend I found some Pacific Madrone sticks washed up on the beach and I'm planning on turning the smaller one into my first wand. I'm pretty excited!

Thank you everyone for helping to answer my questions! It helped!

[SpiritTalker]

Re- later within the circle : think the books tell us the ideal alter set up and then what you see is the reality we live with. Energy isn't stopped by a wall. We don't have to walk all the way around the altar - aim and shoot above it.

My thoughts on the blade is that as a tool of both thought & will, it cuts those clingy threads of astral energy left over from our environment. I call them cooties. The early arrowheads & spear tips were stone. Obsidian (volcanic glass) was an early cutting material & used bone for a handle because it was available & hollow. Iron and steel are magnetic which is magical. Magnetic materials disrupt the Fae so is protective. Copper conducts geo-electrical energies & with a hollow bone handle condenses energy as a good healing conductor. Which material you choose comes down to what you use it for & your path's dictates. A blade commands & directs energy (& can store it) plus cuts, separates & banishes energy so metal is defensive against spirits. A wand channels energy both out & in, & wood grows in parallel layers so is a good conductor. It's less aggressive than a steel knife so is used for inviting.

[Amalthea]

Oooooh I hadn't seen obsidian knives yet! Those sound beautiful. Off to look now, thank you!

[Corbin]

Erm ... obsidian isn't particularly practical because it is extremely sharp and brittle - very prone to fracture. Stone knapping (fracturing stone to create a cutting edge) is also pretty tricky.

[Ashrend]

That sounds like a nice wand, try if u can to find out what kind of wood it is. And it will always have the water element in it because its from the sea

fire and flames

[Shawn Blackwolf]

Erm ... obsidian isn't particularly practical because it is extremely sharp and brittle - very prone to fracture. Stone knapping (fracturing stone to create a cutting edge) is also pretty tricky.

Hmmm

Have to say , you should go talk to some native peoples about this...

I have a 6 inch lavender obsidian spear point , I will be using to construct
a "Sacred Lance"...I have owned obsidian knives...

I have flint , and glass arrowheads , both made for me , and given to me ,
by native peoples , and friends...

Some are extremely strong...I have friends that do knapping...

I supply them with , and trade them for antler to do their work...

[Corbin]

In my case "native people" however would be the Welsh lol! So we have to make do!

Flint and stone is very tough but tricky to fashion (loads of utube tutors for knapping), Obsidian is sharp as glass (being volcanic glass) and requires a lot of care. Due in part to its brittleness South American tribes would make large wooden clubs (a bit like paddles) of wood with grooves for chunks of obsidian to overcome its tendency to shatter and break.

For ritual purposes obsidian would be fine - but still a "live" blade. Any ritual "mishaps" which happen could mean a nasty cut or a broken tool (something which would totally spoil a carefully constructed atmosphere).

Personally, I long ago had an urge to use antler, not simply antler handle but a tine made into an athame - I've always been quite surprised more people haven't done this. In prehistoric Europe antler (used in knapping coincidently; a soft hammer or billet) and bone was a prime tool / tool material. It's also great for other reasons; the seasonal symbolism of antler, it's connections to the many itinerations or "masks" of the horned god, the fact it can be found and gathered even today - and nothing has to die to provide it.

[Shawn Blackwolf]

I am Irish , English , Welsh , and Southern French ancestry...

I have *many* athames made of antler , I have carved...

I shall be doing a fair and selling next weekend...

But here are some carvings for now...( look at close ups )

It is in our ancestral blood , as Celtic / Pict natives...

http://everythingunderthemoon.net/forum ... 34892.html

[Corbin]

Very cool, scrimshawing is a real art, carving beyond whittling is a discipline I've never come to terms with.

Regardless of your degree of skill, there is something very primal and satisfying at finding something and shaping it to a specific purpose that shop purchasing will always struggle to match. That said, choosing an item that is the "right fit" for you is as much an expression of creativity done in the right spirit - we don't all have the "skillz"

[Shawn Blackwolf]

Ah , yet in Bali , there is no word for artist , because it is said
we all have that ability to create *something* beautiful...

And it is important to find that "skill", and bring it to fruition...

As one who is of the Faery Tradition , I am a firm believer in this...

Look at the old Celtic art , and the stories of the Tuatha De Dannaan ,
and the artistry of the time...still there in the blood and land...

Just needs to be awoken...

( By the way , regarding horned god , and antlers...my photo )

http://www.paganspace.net/photo/blackwo ... ntext=user

.....................................................................................................

However , regarding "choosing an item right for you" , you
have brought up an important point for the thread...

***Amalthea***...

Once you choose any magic(k)al tool , you must make it yours ,
by some method...carving or drawing a symbol , your name ,
wrapping it , staining it with three drops of blood , etc...

This deals with your energy signature , and the Telluric Current
of Earth , that is the "carrier wave" for the Earth , Air , Fire ,
and Water astral currents...

They must unite to activate your ability to work with , and move
forces beyond the physical documented by science today...

You can find links I posted on the Telluric Current , in the thread
by Mama Magpie in Dream Forum , under "Coins and Them"...

Read those links as they will give a clue , or two , regarding the
workings of the Craft...good fortune finding your right tool(s)...

Remember...all tools *must* be made *yours*...

[Corbin]

I have aquired an iron pentacle trivet which I have been experimenting with. The moment I place my right hand over it, I feel the left hand start to "draw" energy. I tried pushing further and felt energy rising from my feet. The air between the right hand and the pentacle began to noticeably roil with blue white smoke. It wasn't an unpleasant energetic sensation but not entirely solicited either.

Of course, as this altar tool is used for consecration this could be beneficial .. any advice? I'm still kinda on the fence and dont entirely understand iron?