Modern Elements

[sagart]

I'm interested in the views people have here concerning the old elements (earth, air, fire, water) and other elements that we might come across these days.

My initial thought is - while the four elements are primal, to an extent, they're not really elemental. We know what fire is and we know that water can be split into something simpler. This doesn't bother me, though. The spirit of fire, the essence, you might call it, is what I'm calling on in ritual, not the actual chemical interaction that produces heat. When I call on water, I'm not calling on hydrogen and oxygen.

Then I pause - what about other things?

Has anyone experimented with other "elemental" correspondences? I know that there are other systems including things like wood and metal, so I wonder if anyone here has used them. What about the less "natural" things like plastic and asphalt? If you live in an animistic universe, are engineered products with a spirit?

[Rein]

Hmmm.....That is one VERY interesting query Sagart!

Yes I believe the common elements: Earth, Wind, Water, Fire, and Metal and Wood, posess some sort of spirit.

About the others....while it is true that everything on the planet was made from something natural, I think that if it was made by man it somehow loses it's property.

Think about it: In nature, the ingredients in, say, plastic, wouldn't have ever formed together to MAKE plastic. A HUMAN had to do it, and therefore it is not considered "elemental", because without human interference it would never have come to exist.

Kayako

[Sobek]

i think the idea behind the elements is either the basic requirements to create and sustain life. or behind the things that naturally occur without any intervention from other beings.

[Kristofski]

To me, the elements are a handy way to catagorise natural energy. We can call upon seperate elements to help us with specific goals, and different people have different amounts of each element in them. I also believe that it's the same for all deities that have been worshiped, as they are all personifications of different aspects of the divine. You can have however many elements you want in my opinion, as long as you're approaching them in the right way they are all part of the same thing anyway

Kristofski xx

[LaFiamma]

I'm interested in the views people have here concerning the old elements (earth, air, fire, water) and other elements that we might come across these days.

My initial thought is - while the four elements are primal, to an extent, they're not really elemental. We know what fire is and we know that water can be split into something simpler. This doesn't bother me, though. The spirit of fire, the essence, you might call it, is what I'm calling on in ritual, not the actual chemical interaction that produces heat. When I call on water, I'm not calling on hydrogen and oxygen.

Then I pause - what about other things?

Has anyone experimented with other "elemental" correspondences? I know that there are other systems including things like wood and metal, so I wonder if anyone here has used them. What about the less "natural" things like plastic and asphalt? If you live in an animistic universe, are engineered products with a spirit?

I believe in the four elements as forces of nature, not as somehting "old" that needs to be replaced or supplimented with something more modern.

(Not that I have a problem with modern stuff...I am one of those pagans that detests the notion that "modern" is bad...but in this particular case, I believe that the elements, as forces of nature are beyond time constraints.)

[Enki]

I think the traditional chinese elements of Fire, Metal, Water, Earth and Wood are interesting. They introduce two new forms, Metal, which I think represents all that is made by the mind, and Wood, which is a living, or at least, organic element. I would add air to these five to make six elements that pretty well represents all the aspects so that you have represented Plasma, Gas, Liquid, Solid, Manmade and Organic.