Should I...?

[shadowx]

But what of sadness?

Surely it is a bad thing, and yet it is part of life. It is essential.

To live our lives only looking at the good is to only live half a life. To believe only in the light, and love is to ignore half of life.

We may not appreciate anger or sadness at the time but it *is* an essential part of life. A sculptor that shapes, forms and guides us, and not always for the worse.

I deserted Wicca purely for this reason. It teaches only half of life and suggests that love and light can overcome all when this is not true. In my opinion Wicca is baby-ish. Dont take offence if you are Wiccan, that is just my view of it.

Perhaps you are right Airlight, however sometimes anger can help us overcome things that would otherwise destroy us. It can give us the option to fight back rather than run away and let the attackers catch up.

In a situation where a partner cheats on you (which i might add is not the reason for my anger... Almost not, it wasnt me anyway) anger is what makes you turn away. Without anger you would have stayed and suffered. Sadness too has its part to play.

Of course anger can destroy. But if there is anything i have learned it is that anger is not bad and love is not good. They simply *are* in the same way that the universe is not against me, nor is it helping me. It simply *exists* it has no input nor opinion. The one that makes things good or bad is you. The ghost in the machine. By our actions we dictate whether a knife is used to feed our families at the dinner table, or if it is plunged deep into the body of another. The knife is not bad, it is not good. It simply *is*. Anger, sadness, happiness are the same. It is what you use those emotions for that decides how you turn out. I am not saying i have done so correctly, however i am still here and i am happy. It is true to say that anger didnt change that situation. In fact, love did. But without the anger i would have only swamping sadness, drowning, choking, blacking out life. That anger has made me who i am today, a reasonably balanced individual. It has allowed me to sit outside myself and observe. Take things slowly and realize many things.

I hope you never ever take on something stronger than you with the way you act, you might believe it to be fake as you have proven that in this thread.

Even if i did not believe in an entity i would not summon or fight it if i thought it was stronger than I, it only takes one mistake and death is the least of your worries. Would you summon satan? I know i wouldnt, and i dont believe in any devil like being. But what if i am wrong? Like i said, i have an open mind in most things. Even the things discussed in this thread that i have declared in my eyes to be false i still accept i may be wrong and would listen to and accept any reasonable argument against me.

[Xal]

This conversation has taken an interesting turn into the personal feelings of shadowx, for reasons I'm not quite sure. Perhaps not motives of the highest intentions...

I agree with most of Shadowx sediments, and understand the frustration that comes with it.

I disagree however that just because angels exist that implies demons would have to exist, unless of course you are going by the strict Christian definition of angels and demons.

There is too much convenience and tip toeing it seems in this department. But do whatever you will. This life is your playground and you can live it how you want.

[shadowx]

I dont mind the questions though the initial motives were less than desirable things seem to have calmed down...

RE: angels and demons.

Everything in the universe has its opposite *EVERYTHING* There is not a single thing that doesnt have an equal and opposite. Nothing. Ever.

Based on that i conclude that everything in magick has its equal and opposite too. (Because magick too must exist within the universe, or multiverse which in term exists within a larger "thing" which i call the universe).

So, if angels are beings of goodness, and are different to humans (In the same way that a demon is not a bad human, it is a demon) then there MUST be an opposite to that. I just cant fathom any other possibility. The natural opposite to an energy being of pure good is one of pure bad.
That is what i take from the combination of science and magick.

Perhaps it is not true. But it works with everything we see in science and in magick. Karma for example. If i send out good then i receive good and vice versa. This is an example of the "Every action has an equal and opposite re-action" and the ideas of science and everything having an opposite. The opposite of to send good is to receive good (although i have been debating with myself if the opposite of sending good is to receive bad because of send/receive and good/bad but i am unsure).

I do not believe in angels or demons. I do however believe in good and bad people. These people when they die remain good or bad unless they change their ways. A particularly bad person, like a child rapist murder or Hitler for example would be a "demon" to me. IE he is a bad person, evil if you will, but he is still a person (or spirit) despite this. Being bad does not make you grow huge teeth and red eyes etc.... The same applies to good.

I believe that back in the day these people were either mistaken for beings of a different nature (angels/demons) or they were deliberately called angels and demons to fit in with current religious and cultural trends.

RE: magick/magic

to me "magic" has the connotations and feelings of david blaine, cards etc... "Magick" has connotations of the craft and "real" magic. Its just my opinion of course.

[Hexima]

agree with what, that wicca is babyish? i am wiccan and i don't feel the same as u. i did take some offense saying that was babyish, if u don't feel that wicca is for u seek another reilgion. to me i believe wicca is important in my life. i do respect other religions and faiths. i just feel that comment was handled properly u could have said in a nicer way. i am definally not happy with u.

[shadowx]

There is no other way of saying it. It is my opinion and i am happy that you are comfortable in Wicca. It just isnt for me.

I do not feel i was aggressive or nasty in my comment in anyway.

[Hexima]

hi sweety,

i was tired when i wrote that message, i just didn't like the part "babyish" part. i know it's easy to step on peoples toes when u didn't mean to. i wanted to ask where and what is ur faith? are u a witch too? thanks for answering my Questions.

[shadowx]

For the moment i simply consider myself a pagan. I have npot studied, nor practised enough to call myself a witch and i dont fit into any of the named paths of paganism as such.

If anything i am closest to a chos follower in that i believe in the power of belief.

Contrary to what it may sound like i do believe in the power of magick, the afterlife, spirits, energy etc... but i do not believe in gods or goddesses. Perhaps there are spirits who are extremely powerful and adept but that does not make them gods or goddesses.

I believe there are more than one universes called multiverses. Imagine a giant bubble, and inside it are smaller bubbles, some touching, some just floating. Our universe is, in my opinion only one of those small bubbles. Inside our bubble, in my eyes, is a vast amount of what we would call magickal energy. It is influenced by our thoughts and our will. I would attribute this to collapsing many possibilities into one. (the theory goes like this: put a cat in a lead box with a radiation monitor that triggers poison if it detects radiation. Once you close that box the cat is at the same time dead, alive and neither. Now, if you never open that box you will never know, and since it isnt being observed the universe has no need to decide if the cat is alive or dead, so it is neither and both. As soon as you open the box the universe has to "decide" if the cat is alive or dead and that is the result you see when you look inside. So in my opinion magick is a way of forcing the universe to choose in our favour. It seems stupid but there was an experiment... Called "the double slit experiment" it goes like this: Light is carried, or made of little balls called protons. They are stupidly small, smaller than an atom but they are real. At the same time light is energy AND matter, which is confusing but all you need to imagine is a single tennis ball which is light. If that ball hits your eye you will see a flash of light. If not you will see nothing.

Imagine standing behind a wall with two slits in it about a foot apart, lets say. i then fire this *one* ball of light at the wall, you should see only ONE flash of light from one slit. but you see two, this means that the one ball of light split into two balls of light and went through both holes at the same time! Weird... I Want to know why so i sit at the edge of the wall and watch the ball of light approach, it then goes through only ONE slit and you see only one flash from one slit. How is it that the ball knows i am watching? The mere act of me watching has forced the universe to decide which slit the ball goes through where previously it went through both.

This is a true scientific experiment and well documented.

My theory of magick is that doing a spell is the same as watching the ball. THe spell FORCES the universe to decide between one situation and another. Our desire weighs the odds in our favour (eg winning or not winning the lottery, our spell forces the universe to decide and because i want to win the universe is more likely to choose the one i want)

Weird... BUt thats how i see it.

[Airlight]

Anger never helped me..I've been anger, I've been raped, I lost my grandma, I got bad grades. I learned my anger just made it worse. I have learned to go pass all that. I am a survivor of rape, not a victim, my grandma actually had to come visit me and tell me she is fine and that anger causes suffering and to stop. My grandma was the only one who understood I had gifts and that I was special and she loved that about me, I was her first grandchild and her favorite grandchild, I brought the family together. Getting bad grades, I would get worse grades when I was angry.

I am just saying anger causes nothing but suffering, it may help you but it has never helped me. I have experienced sadness as well but we all must move pass that as well. To be calm is to be the greatest thing. Today is the anniversary of my grandma's death but you know what I am not sad because she is in a better place and I love her dearly and I know she loves me. She can see me and I can feel her. So, today, I will be celebrating my fiance's birthday since it falls on the same day.

As for magick, I was taught magick was David Blaine(who happens to be awesome...I must say), Criss Angel(he's okay...cute but okay) and magic was true magic...

As for summoning Satan...why would I want to summon that wannabe? It is Lucifer....and as for summoning him...I won't talk about that lol but...he's cool, he's a kind being, not something you were taught in Catholic or a Christian School. I believe there are demons(who do evil things), Angels(who do good things) and Fallens(who are stuck in the middle).

I just wish shadowx to be no anger between us, it is a good debate and a lot of things are coming out but I hope for you that you become stronger than your anger and you overcome it because it will just cause problems.

[shadowx]

I have no anger for anyone on this forum, so there is nothing negative between us and i dont consider us enemies or anything of the sort!

As for lucifer/"the devil" i am still inclined to think it is a perversion of the old pagan god(s) of fertility and power (hence the animalistic traits and horns)

I am sorry to hear you went through bad times but i am glad you have pulled through.

[Airlight]

You mean Pan? Well, I can tell you Lucifer looks human, very much human...he isn't a perversion but he can be a pervert to his wife. Lol! Like I stated there are demons, angels, and fallen...he is a fallen....most of those perversions of the Catholic/Christian beliefs are actually fallen...not demons. Those considered the seven deadly sins are fallen. Though..one is crazy, the others are just fine.

[JBRaven]

Can't this be taken to pms?

[shadowx]

It could, however i feel it contributes in a way to the original subject in that we are loosely debating the existence of other beings (vampires, werewolves, gods, demons etc....)

If it is deemed not to be appropriate then perhaps another thread can be started along those lines.

[Purple_wind]

Wow... Okay I guess no one can have any beliefs without them being gone against, I just thought this forum of all places would be the best place to ask a question like this. guess not. Thanks Airlight for defending me. I think I should be able to state how I feel without being ridiculed QUITE so harshly. Shadow you do have alot of hidden anger. I wish you wouldn't let it leak into your statements and comments. I don't like being called crazy. I know what I know and I feel what I feel. I know what they are. I saw Blake once at night while astral traveling and that was proof enough.

[Hexima]

hi purple,

don't listen to him he's full of him self.

shadow, that's alright to be just a pagan and not being in the goddess or god. i assume ur angery because people are pushing against u, that's the impression that u gave me when i scaned u. i am disapointed that u are fighting everyone and everyone is upset and pissed off at u. i think u should say sorry to the people u hurt.

[JBRaven]

Sure You can believe what you want. But I also believe what I want and will voice my truths as I see fit. It is then your choice to keep them or toss them aside.