Everything Under the Moon

The reason I left Christianity in the first place was because of the science, philosophy, and history that disproved it. Basically, all intellectual reasons. Never because of spiritual reasons. A couple years ago, about a year after I left, I started searching for a new religion. One that made sense: its morality was right, it matched up with current science, and so on. Eventually I found Wicca. It fulfilled everything I was looking for: the morality matched my own and the current standard, the science was correct, etc.

But here's the problem: Wicca is not verifiable. In Christianity, if Jesus could be proven to not exist, or the historical events the Bible is based upon were proven to have never happened or to have occurred the way they were written, the whole religion would come crumbling to the ground. The same with Islam, Judaism, and others. Now, that's the reason I left Christianity in the first place. I discovered that when I tried to verify it, it just didn't add up.

Wicca seemed to me like something that could fill the gap that Christianity had left. Obviously church, worship, prayer, and bible study wouldn't give me the same feeling I once had because they didn't mean anything to me anymore. I felt like I needed something to replace them. But now I'm not so sure if that gap needs to be filled up at all with another religion, and maybe the gap never even existed.

Add to all that that there's no way to prove (or disprove) Wicca's reliabity, and that every attempt I've had since leaving my old faith to make a new spiritual connection has failed, it would leave anyone questioning everything all over again. I wrote a similar thread to this a while back here: http://everythingunderthemoon.net/forum ... 33147.html

I tried all of you guys' suggestions, and nothing worked. If any of you think I'm being impatient, I'm not. I've been at this for 3 years, I left the church 4 years ago. Nothing has worked. Nothing has connected. I've never believed that spell, crystals, etc. work on any level except as a placebo. And that's one of the questions I came to ask this community: if you know something isn't true, that it only creates a good feeling in you, why would you believe it? Or why would you even need it? This post probably sounds very rambling to whoever's reading it, and what I'm trying to say is very hard to put into words, but any advice or answers you could give me would be greatly appreciated.

I felt like I needed something to replace them. But now I'm not so sure if that gap needs to be filled up at all with another religion, and maybe the gap never even existed.

I think you're really onto something in these statements. If I were you I'd follow up on them, see where they lead you.
I think you're waaaaay over-thinking it, and waaaaay under-feeling it, SilverAntlers. Get out of your head so much, and learn to trust and follow your heart, on this and everything else that's important to you. "maybe the gap never even existed" = yay, now you're getting someplace! Who says you need religion at all? It's not a must-have.

I've learned profound spiritual lessons from atheists, believe it or not. They were heart-centered people who didn't need religion to be spiritual. None of us do. But some of us choose to utilize one religious framework or another, merely as a vehicle with which to express our innate spirituality. It serves as a means, not an end in itself. Spirituality and religion are not the same thing.

Maybe that's been your confusion. But then you switched vehicles and realized in the end, you never needed either one of them. You've always had everything you need, just didn't know it, until now.

"What's the Point of it All?" It seems you have just figured that out on your own.




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Kassandra has said it very well. I can only add what I was told by a very old man: stop looking and start being.

SilverAntlers, Wicca may not be "verifiable" in the sense that we don't know if there really was an unbroken line of witches going back to a matriarchal prehistory; it's also normal to have a healthy skepticism of magic. I say that as someone who has seen magic and had religious experiences, and yet questions the varacity of those things on a regular basis. And yet I think Paganism goes deeper than simply belief or historical veracity.

I do believe that we need some type of spirituality or faith, whatever that may be, to make sense of life, and to give us purpose. Rituals, spells, magic, crystals, prayers, etc. -- they are all the "bells and whistles" for spirituality. They are tools, time-tested techniques ("spiritual technology", if you will) for helping us connect to that deeper spirituality. Speaking from my own path, the Pagan framework is the one I like best to connect to the world, inspire me to do what's right, and make sense of the great questions in life. And even when I am at my most doubtful of deities and magic, I still can find wonder, reverence, and wisdom in the Oldest Gods: Earth, Sun, Moon, Sea, Wind, Fire, etc.

There are a growing number of people who consider themselves both atheist and Pagan; they reject the supernatural, but still find a lot of beauty in Paganism as a spiritual framework. A while ago, I wrote a post: Paganism: When There Aren't Any Gods, to touch on why some people might choose Paganism as their spiritual framework. Undoubtedly, there are others who find that belief in Jesus, perhaps, or the teachings of the Buddha are more helpful for them. The main questions of spirituality (whatever your framework of choice) remain: What helps you make sense of the world, makes you be a better person, inspires you to do good?

I agree with all the nice replies above.
Some people believe that magic, faeries, elemental brings actually exist. Some don't, but being with nature, meditation and visualisation calms them down and makes them feel better.

I would compare it to art. If you look at a beautiful painting, maybe the object depicted doesn't exist in reality, but you enjoy the art anyway. The same with music. Music is nothing more than physical vibration of air of various pitches. Yet when you listen, sometimes you cry, sometimes you want to dance, sometimes it makes you afraid when it's in a horror movie.

It has a function that is not connected to "reality", but there's something about art that makes sense on a different level. So we don't throw it away because it's "only fantasy".

The same is true for spirituality in my view. It doesn't have to be "real" as long as it fulfils the function of beauty and psychological help.
For me, celebrating summer solstice the same way my ancestors did is a very powerful and relaxing experience, and a way of bonding with family while sitting around bonfire. It doesn't matter that I don't actually believe I will be healthy if I wash in rain water on that day. But the act of doing it is very refreshing on both physical and psychological level. It's something new, unusual and fun.

For me, this is what spirituality should be about. If you want a spirituality that is "true", I'm afraid you won't find any.

I used to bang my head against many walls, looking for the truth. One day it occurred to me that everything is true, at some level, and everything is also false. And both quite honestly apply in every level at the same time.

It saves a lot of head aches. All I need to know is what's working.

If you stop banging your head against walls, you not only save yourself a lot of headaches, you don't have to spend time and money having the holes in the walls repaired.

Snow

But think of all the windows you've created! When life hands you lemons, make lemonade. I think it's time for my nap...or else meds...

Maybe a short reply to the "what's the point?" question is, to cause a change in concsiousness and evolve.

Does it really matter what is or is not 'verifiable'? Many, indeed, have seen an inherent part of the spiritual journey to be an abandonment of what the Surrealist Andre Breton called "this cancer of the mind which consists of thinking all too sadly that certain things 'are' while others, which well might be, 'are not'".