Everything Under the Moon

I'm so glad you mentioned this, as I have been thinking about it since I first read the post. I agree with Seraphin, I think that suffering is also woven into the fabric of the universe and is in a sense unavoidable. But, the question I have is weather there is a way to avoid it as the Buddha. The Buddha have up everything he had and he had a lot, including his family and he went and lived with monks who lived in caves and lived on one grain of rice a day and meditated all day long. When the Buddha finally reached "enlightenment" then his suffering truly ended for he understood the meaning of life and every secret of the universe and therefore realized he didn't need his family or gold or anything. If you think about it Christians have a somewhat similar philosophy. There is good and there is evil and the best way to escape the suffering caused by evil is "salvation". Even gnostic Christians are searching for "gnosis" or knowledge. Just leaves me wondering, is there a state of being that one can reach and be suffrage free?

Hiya Rosie!

I think you have answered your own question. I personally believe that through enlightenment, we can end our seemingly unavoidable sufferings! Folks who have already achieved their higher consciousness sometimes can look at their lives and identity precisely where every lack is coming from and what is its remedy. Few of us could do this, simply because our choices, preferences and decisions are scribbled all over with so many misdeeds, dishonesty, and omissions that it's impossible to distinguish causal connections. This is what Yoruba teaches regarding "Epe" (curses and misfotunes), "Ewon" (imprisonment) and "Ese" (afflictions). Our sufferings should serve as a catalyst of self-reflection and realization.

However, when our faulty actions and malfuctions are so numerous, it becomes difficult to trace our hardships and sufferings to specific causes.

Thus, often when we look, we can't find. Sometimes when we think we've found the answer or identified the source, we've come up with the wrong connection. This is especially true when we have this arrogance to interpret other people's problems and suffering, a tendency at which many of us are master. "I know why he's experiencing this. It's because he was soooo ignorant." I know I don't have the right to tell this (since I sometimes do tend to be self-righteous ass) but I think this is the right to say that the appropriate response to other people's suffering is to share their pain, not to pulpiteer about how they deserved it.

Living within a world defined by darkness and chaos is one of the hardest challenges that we face, isn't it? This is the challenge of not being able to interpret events with enlightenment. Despite our sincerest efforts to reflect and search ourselves deeply, sometimes we simply can't understand why a particular affliction has struck us. Enlightenment can of course achieve through series of tests and challenges, they'll catapult us into change and growth . Once we gain the ability to interpret the source of our sufferings, then that's the time where we can avoid them.

There are many kinds of suffering. The kind that is served up as a risk of caring (loss) can be avoided by caring for nothing but yourself. But now you are subject to another kind of suffering, (loneliness.) Suffering cannot be avoided. The key is to overpower it.

I just wanted to say firstly that this thread is wonderful. This has been on my mind lately, and having all these detailed opinions to read is lovely. I guess I'll try throwing in my two cents to this thread, although I'm personally not yet as sure in what I believe in of why suffering happens....

In my fourth year religion class at my Catholic high school, we've lately lightly touched on the philosophies of eastern religions like Buddhism and Hinduism, although my teacher has a slight bias in the way he presents these other religions since he is a devout Catholic educator... Oh, well, I can't blame him; that's what he's paid to teach, and what he truly believes, so kudos to him. (He's never seems hostile towards other religions though, I think, so that's nice.) *From what I understand, non-Abrahamic religions kind of believe that bad things happen because that's just how the world works? There's a balance between good things happening and bad things in the universe, and there's not much you can do about it other than, like, learning from it and growing stronger and accepting it......?

I personally kind of agree with a balance-between-good-and-bad-things-happening idea, but I also kind of don't.... I guess that's something I have to still work on and find out for myself. A lot of my teenage classmates and myself kind of agree that the idea that God (or the Gods, or the universe, etc.) specifically sending bad things to happen to you to learn from would be kind of a scumbag move, like those scumbag god memes you can google. However, I guess the divider between scumbag or not, would be if you believe bad things are sent to you, or if they just happen, like gravity just is.

I also agree with what Xiao said in the first post,

I think it is unavoidable to be completely free of suffering, although of course I would like it if there were a minimum of suffering in the world.

I also don't believe this world will ever be completely rid of suffering... Unfortunately, that's just how it is. It's hard and sometimes you can just feel like nothing at all is going right, and some people get so depressed with life that they would rather die than go on... And that's terrible. I wish life wasn't like that, but I don't think the forces of the universe will ever change in that way. Like Heartstrong said, we are often are contradictory, and we go out seeking to stir the water and shake things up to make things interesting, I guess.

Digressing, I'd also like to say that although there's suffering in the world, I wish there would be less, although we'll never be rid of it. You do have to grow stronger going through life... It's hard. But, hopefully worth while in the end, when you're and elderly person laying on your death bed thinking about your life.

I guess that's kind of what I think. I think I got kind of rambling... *Disclaimer: I'm very sorry if I said anything wrong about Buddhism and Hinduism in my first paragraph. I most likely did, but I'm not doing it to be mean, I just don't know those religions much at all, just a little tiny bit. Anyone feel free to constructively correct me.

Thanks again to everyone who's replied to this question, and thanks to michaelmastronardi for asking the question. It's a great question to ponder, and discuss.
Stay Blessed everyone xx

Suffering is a neccessary part of life, because without it, we may never truly grow or learn. Through suffering, comes wisdom and strength. Sometimes you have to cut out the dead leaves, which can be painful, in order to bloom and grow. This is part of our journey in life.

This is an interesting question. Honestly, I do believe that some suffering is necessary for us to learn from, and grow as a person, just as Siona said. I believe the universe will throw some life lessons your way if it believes it is necessary for you to learn a particular lesson, or maybe even realize something. It may be big, but it also may be small. That said, I don't believe all suffering is necessary.