How and when to curse someone

[JuniperBerry]

Traum, Traum, Traum. *Shakes head*


Don't you think your energy would have been put to better use working on yourself to not let situations like that upset you so much? It's really not her fault that you chose to allow yourself to get so upset about it. That situation could have gone any number of ways, but your irritation with her manifested irritation in her until you both were in the wrong. You could have been cajoling, and charming, and easy-going and she could have warmed up and been more acquiescing. Really, you cursed her because you don't have a handle on your own emotions. Right?

[Traumwandlerin]

Really, that's what I said I'm not perfect and my boundaries are not srtengthed enough to don't let such things happen in the first place

I'm working on that, but until it's done I just stick with cursing, which is better than not be able to get negative energies out of your system.

[Serendipity]

I really don't believe in blaming the victim.

Was Traumwandlerin's reaction an over reaction? Possibly. But, for whatever reason this person was a jerk and if someone is a jerk then whatever happens to that person (within reason) because of their ummm... jerky-ness (lol sorry best I could do) is their own fault.

I've gotten to an age where I pretty much blow off stuff like that, but by the same token I've also gotten to an age, and degree of comfort with myself and my magic, to say to myself that if someone asks for something it is ok for me to give it to them lol.

[JuniperBerry]

I don't believe in blaming the victim, either. I believe in not letting oneself be a victim.

It would be much more empowering for you, Traum, to gain the inner-strength and assertiveness to not allow someone else's actions to affect you on such an emotional level. No one is perfect, people bug and annoy and push your buttons. But you have to react to it with strength and dignity, rather than with passive-aggressiveness and manipulation. And I have an idea, from reading your posts, that you are on a path of self-empowerment and self-knowledge. It seems, anyway, like those things are important to you.

There's many ways to rid yourself of the negativity. Just like in another thread, you create a pattern of dealing with something "magically", rather than dealing with the root. So, when someone is an ass again (bound to happen, right?) you're only coping method is to get hurt, and send that hurt back out. But you haven't learned how to be strong so those things don't hurt you. And if you did, you wouldn't be hurt as often.

You're a smart woman. You know there's other ways to deal with it, and you know what you would really like to gain from the situation. Which is why I was teasing you with a little 'tsk-tsk'.

[Traumwandlerin]

I see the problem now, I didn't define the "when" enough

JuniperBerry, you are right. I know better, sadly I can't do better. See, I have a history of serious emotionally and other abuse. I've dealt with lots of the problems, but one problem is sticking to me really hard. It's the problem of seriously just no emotional boundaries. I'm catching feelings just 1 to 1. I've made myself a very powerful stone, which worked perfect but I couldn't handle this lack of emotions either Sooooooo anyway, this was the first experience how I got rid myself of this negative emotions and feelings. I wanted to share and tell how intense this was for me. First time I've learned a way to deal with these things on my own

It wasn't quite clear to me, why I posted all this stuff, but now I know. I really was just happy, cause I found a way how to deal with this. This way is not perfect at all, it's probably really newbie, but it's all I'm capable of at this moment. But that's the same with cursing. I always considered cursing is something only newbies would do, since they didn't understand how much they will hurt themselves with this. So chosing this title is probably a symbol for telling myself at this pont I'm the newbie. Still got no defense for myself.

So no offense taken. Really I feel I've learnt something I was wondering why I posted something like this, now I know

[JuniperBerry]

" g#d&%%^ 2gunsfiring dj**di!!!!"


Sorry. Internet lost connection and my reply disappeared.

It's just a matter of becoming comfortable with your path. I was looking over some of my old journals and oh.my.god. I was such a freaking mess. I seriously might burn them, that's how embarassing they are. Even now, on my heathen forum? I'm a mouse because I'm not that comfortable with it yet. And for someone as smart as you, it's more difficult because you're so inquisitive and creative with your philosphies and beliefs. You don't just make do with someone telling you and that's all you need; with your type of curiousity it'll be awhile before you've explored and definied every nook and cranny of the rabbit hole.

I'm not against magic, as a placebo or a training technique it's great. For instance, being emotionally vulnerable, maybe it would help you to carry a black stone and visualize others negative energy soaking into that rather then being directed at you. That's just an example, I think you should find some way that really feels right for you. And remember that it's ok to be damaged in some way, everyone is and it manifests through nervous nail-biting, over-eating, sensitivity to criticism, addictions. You're bitchy receptionist is damaged in her own way, too. The point isn't to change or erase the damage, the point is to find a way to help you manage it in a positive way.

Glad you're not offended.

*crossing my fingers that this goes through*

[Traumwandlerin]

I've actually tried snowflake obsidian so far (intuitively chosen) and it worked more than perfect. It shut down like every emotion of other people, I didn't catch any. Which left me totally empty, cause obviously I haven't learnt fill myself with own emotions so far. That was quite disturbing ^^ So now I wear this sometimes, when I know negativity is on my way and I need some protection. But I won't wear it all the time. But anyway, I'm happier with doing those things on my own than relying on a stone with my everyday life.

And it's ok for me to take the long road, actually it's quite nice here and very interesting

[Munnag]

To Curse someone? I believe that using magic to curse some one is equals to Dark Magic which will have consequences beyond our imagination, No dark Magician is survied until day!!

[JuniperBerry]

No dark Magician has survived until today? What? Would you mind explaining this further?

[Traumwandlerin]

Munnag, maybe read the entire thread, so you know what it's about. Don't just randomly post one sentence without really engaging in the discussion.

And JuniperBerry, in some interpretation he is surely be right. No Dark Magician (whatever this is) will live this life forever. In the end he will inevitably die. That's the fate of a dark magician. Like it's the fate of every living being ^^

[Serendipity]

To Curse someone? I believe that using magic to curse some one is equals to Dark Magic which will have consequences beyond our imagination, No dark Magician is survied until day!!

Let’s examine cursing for a moment please.

If I curse someone and cause them serious injury or even death for some silly reason when it wasn’t deserved then obviously I’ve done something wrong and yes I do believe there will be consequences to me for doing something wrong.

But…

What if I curse someone who is doing real and serious harm to me and mine? Why is that “dark magic?” Why shouldn’t I have the right to stop someone from hurting me and mine? And even if the harm has stopped don’t I have a right to strike back at someone if that person has willfully caused me harm for no legitimate reason? Sure that is revenge, but if someone hurts people on purpose and without remorse why shouldn’t I be entitled to give them back a taste of what they’ve done to me, and possibly others?

Revenge is a tricky thing. If you give into it too much and or too often you’re doing yourself as much harm as the person who deliberately hurt you has done, possibly. But, if you never allow yourself to experience justifiable anger, if you just bury everything, even the most serious hurt and pain it isn’t healthy.

Cursing is like so many other things in life. You need to assess each situation and find the proper balance... Sometimes simply forgiving and other times... well not.

[JuniperBerry]

Can we merge the two ongoing curse threads?


Personally, I don't see any "good" reason to curse someone (and by "curse" I mean the standard definition of praying or wishing evil or harm unto another). If someone is attacking you- and I take it to mean we're speaking in a magical context- then meet it with a spell of protection. You don't need to do a spell that someone will be hit by a car or lose their job or get a nasty virus. That won't stop the problem, it's just tit for tat. And if they are sending something out to you, then obviously you did something that offended them in the first place, and then you're sending it back because now they've offended you... and it becomes childish. A mirror spell and it's ilk, though, isn't a curse; it's a protection, a shield.

Just my 2 cents.

[Serendipity]

Hummm…

“Personally, I don't see any "good" reason to curse someone (and by "curse" I mean the standard definition of praying or wishing evil or harm unto another)….”
Maybe that is just lack of imagination on your part.

“If someone is attacking you- and I take it to mean we're speaking in a magical context- then meet it with a spell of protection…”
You know what people say about assumptions. I meant any kind of injury, including but certainly not limited to magical injury. Drunk drivers come to mind. They will sometimes hurt many, many people before doing serious jail time. Please explain to me how you would deal with this situation if not by cursing them?

“That won't stop the problem, it's just tit for tat…”
When I do a curse (a very rare thing indeed for me) you can bet the farm that I am working towards solving what I see to be a problem.
.
“And if they are sending something out to you, then obviously you did something that offended them in the first place, and then you're sending it back because now they've offended you... and it becomes childish...”
Wow, it must be nice to live in a world where nobody is ever hurtful or malicious to others for no reason. Please let me know what zip code that is so I can move there immediately. Where I live most people are very nice but there are some who aren’t so nice. They rob stores and homes, and do any number other things that hurt people for no other reason than for enjoyment or personal gain. I have no pity for them if it comes back to haunt them, be the haunting in the form of legal troubles or a curse, and if you want to call that tit for tat suit your self, personally I call it personal protection and or justified retribution.

[JuniperBerry]

Maybe that is just lack of imagination on your part.

Maybe. Or possibly it's a set of ethics, morals, principles and a personal honor code that I abide by that's also based in logical real world solutions.

You know what people say about assumptions. I meant any kind of injury, including but certainly not limited to magical injury. Drunk drivers come to mind. They will sometimes hurt many, many people before doing serious jail time. Please explain to me how you would deal with this situation if not by cursing them?

*Sigh* It wasn't an assumption, it was a wild hope that people weren't talking about using magical means in a perfectly mundane situation.

Are you telling me that you spend your spare time sending out curses to any possible drunk driver that's on the road? Or just on random days through-out the year when it occurs to you? If you're asking if a person happens to encounter one on the road:

I deal with it the way most people do. I keep my distance on the road, make note of the license plate number and mile marker, and contact the police. What sort of curse would you perform? A tire blow out causing an already incapacitated person to lose control of the vehicle and remaining a threat to other drivers? A stalled vehicle which again causes an already incapacitated driver to lose control and veer wildly across lanes? Magically making him instantly sober and remorseful of his deeds? Even if it were one of these ridiculous methods, it wouldn't be a curse. I really hope that if I'm in this situation, other people around are actually taking steps to get the driver removed from the road instead of spending their energy cursing him. But that's just me.

If you curse him further after these steps are accomplished, I'd be interested in knowing what method you use that is both applicable to the situation and whose lesson he will identify and be aware of to ensure the he never drives drunk again.

When I do a curse (a very rare thing indeed for me) you can bet the farm that I am working towards solving what I see to be a problem.

You missed the point.

Wow, it must be nice to live in a world where nobody is ever hurtful or malicious to others for no reason. Please let me know what zip code that is so I can move there immediately. Where I live most people are very nice but there are some who aren’t so nice. They rob stores and homes, and do any number other things that hurt people for no other reason than for enjoyment or personal gain. I have no pity for them if it comes back to haunt them, be the haunting in the form of legal troubles or a curse, and if you want to call that tit for tat suit your self, personally I call it personal protection and or justified retribution.

Again, you're missing the point and, honestly, making ridiculously extreme statements. I live in a world in which sometimes I have to accept accountability for my part in a situation. If someone I personally know is cursing me (and it would have to be personal, I doubt some random witch in Fargo is sending out curses to me), I would have to acknowledge that my actions, whether intentional or not, played a part in whatever her feelings are to me- or that she's insane. And then I either address that with them like an adult, or take steps to remove that person's influence in my life if that's not possible. I can do this all, while avoiding harm, without resorting to cursing her right back. Why? Because I'm not ten years old.

There are people that rob homes, steal cars, and hurt people with no good cause. Again, I don't randomly curse any of these people who might be out there planning this. I am proactive in protecting my home and family, however, whether it be reinforcing protective charms or locking my doors. If it happens to me, I'm much more likely to deal with it through everyday means; protecting my children with weapons or through hiding, calling the police, filing a charge, etc and letting the justice system handle it. They know those consequences, and they have to face them. The rest of their life isn't up to me and I wouldn't want it to be.

personally I call it personal protection

Well, that was the point of my initial post.

and or justified retribution

We just have different methods, I suppose. And I'm ok with that.

[Serendipity]

I did a post in the Tips & Advice forum about ethics as part of my Spell Crafting series that I think pretty clearly spells out my position on this topic. Believe me I live in the real world too. To be a little honest I find your position of never doing a curse a little surprising. I’ve done exactly two in thirty-six years and in both cases the person I worked against had made threats against my person and one even went so far as to slash all the tires on my car (I had fired her for stealing from the company we both worked for). I of course took mundane measures to solve the problem, things like calling the police and filing a report and making sure my doors were locked at night, but given that I’m an accomplished magical practitioner I don’t see any reason why I shouldn’t back up my mundane work with magical workings.

As to how I would curse a drunk driver (which by the way was only one example of a great many I could have used) it would involve him/her running into (figuratively speaking of course lol) cops constantly so that it would be difficult if not impossible for him to evade detection. Or do you think working to bring law breakers to the attention of law enforcement is “bad” too? And yes I would consider that a curse.

Make all the *sighs* you want. Why the “wild hope” that magical people won’t use magic to make their lives better? I don’t approve of using magic to hurt people for no reason and I don’t condone using magic in an inappropriate way to gain an advantage that we aren’t entitled too. But, I sure as heck do believe in using magic in positive ways for my own benefit.

To give an example of what I mean take this situation. You’re going to interview for a job and you know a lot of people will be interviewing for it. It would be wrong to use magic to try and make another person less effective in his interview (I would consider that a curse and a very wrong one at that), and it would be wrong to try and use magic to make the interviewer see you in a more positive light than you deserve. It is totally ok to use magic to enhance your own self confidence and eloquence. It isn’t my fault if this gives me an advantage over the other applicants. They have as much right to use magic to enhance their lives as I do, so if they choose not to take advantage of magic that is their fault not mine. That example may seem slightly off topic but I don’t think it is totally. Ultimately when you’re talking about curses you’re talking about ethics and this is a good example of where I stand on ethics as is what I said about the drunk driver and the chick who slashed my tires.

What I said was neither ridiculous or extreme. You said, and I quote, “And if they are sending something out to you, then obviously you did something that offended them in the first place, and then you're sending it back because now they've offended you... and it becomes childish.” Where do you get off assuming that the only reason someone would direct negativity towards another person is because the second person “started it?” That is an insulting and a judgement on people and situations you don’t even know and I find that “ridiculously” sweeping.

And that stuff you wrote about “real world” pffttt… I assure you I live in the real world as much as you do. I simply don’t see magic as a “placebo” as you labelled it, but as one of many options available to me.

The main differences between you and I, I think, is that I don’t automatically assume that just because someone sees something differently than I do that they are wrong and I don’t automatically assume they are being petty or childish. Until and unless someone shows me that they are petty and childish I prefer to believe that they are acting in accordance with a well thought out sense of ethics that while they may not be exactly the same as mine might very well be responsible and thoughtfully applied.

Now if you want to continue this discussion I will be happy to do so. But, there will be no more calling people and the things they say “ridiculous” or any other personal judgements about people.

And FYI I do agree with you that we are different and I too am happy about that.