Wiccan - Pagan

[Eretik]

Whoah,I can see that and more. I can make out more symbols,but I'll look again later when I'm not so tired. I can see one that looks like an inverse Feoh or Ansuz,but I'm not sure. I 'll get some of my site pics up in the morning.I'll look for symbols too. There is a spectacular tomb or three here with spirals and other marks. We have tombs that had totemic links too- the best known are 'Isbister' [the white tailed sea eagle] and 'Cuween' [of the dogs] I 'll put up background info. too. I'm loving this. It's feeding my inner 'geek'. I like to run with the connections.

[[cherokeewind]]

Ok, here is the same rock with the Weeping heart. I have a Lakota peace pipe tomahawk, it has one in brass but without Buffalo horns on top.



Here is the pipe.


The Weeping Heart you see on the blade goes through to other side and is filled with brass. The heart is smaller at the right side, sort of a trademark for the Lakota symbol.

[jcrowfoot]

LOL wow, talk about OT. NO worries, I'm not blowing any whistles. I was just thinking how the symbols on the rock could be some kind of unspoken magickal treaty between a lacota magician and a norse one. Rather far fetched, but an amusing thought, none the less.

I've read that there is evidence to suggest that the Vikings did make it to the new world, to the point where it's speculated that the relations between the two were broken when the Vikings gave the Native Americans milk. Since the Natives were lactose intolerant, they thought they'd been poisoned. The Vikings were just bewildered since they were offering one of their most valuable commodities in friendship.


Just to deviate even further from the original discussion, I have a related question for Eretik. Did the vikings use the T as a symbol for Thor's hammer? I've seen it in a few idiosyncratic rune sets to represent the hammer. Was it used historically?

[Eretik]

I'll need to come back later to this,Thor's hammer,it's actually very connected to the current conversation. I like the heart, I've seen a symbol like it before ,but I need to check and remember. More info,CherokeeWind please, on the significance and meaning?????? That would be very cool.

[Eretik]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_Axe_culture
#
#
#have a look at this.The battle axe people brought metallurgy to the indigenous tribes, all over Northern Europe and it evolved over time into the hammer symbolism, and much more.The single burial habits of these people are traceable all over the same areas/sites,[cist burial] as the previous indigenous cultures types -and the dates show crossover and continous co -existance.There are cist burials all over the henge and stone circle sites, like a new important person being given a rare honour - inhumation at a sacred site of power.[Geomagnetic energy -iron, bronze age, smith -hammer sparks, energy -think on it] I'll need to go find info. but a man from mainland Europe was buried at Stone henge,with a European bronze sword,the account is fascinating [-wouldn't anyone in this time be amazed at the skills and craft of a metalworker -as this man was?]Bloody hell -history and archaeology is proving this Heathen Heretic correct. My nettle journey led me back to this - Geri is rocking history back to the stone age,whoohoo. Thor is still showing me what I need to learn and I fully intend to happily rabbit on about it all. More later.

[[cherokeewind]]

I can't tell you much about the Runes, because they are rare to find. This not the first time I've found them though. The heart is quite common.

Here is another carved rock Notice the bow and arrow, raised standing warrior shape around the abrasive rounded hole. Must be for shaping end of arrows. I found this one same location, with markings also. I recognized the type of stone, once had a sample assayed in California by a well know gold mine assayer. The stone is a sodium variety of amphibole and most amphiboles are calcium. Amphibole is like amphibian, has water in the structure. Pyroxene is like pyro, no water in the chemical formula. Jadeite is a sodium pyroxene, while common Jade is a calcium amphibole.



The mineral here is a magnesium/iron/aluminum silicate. It is found many places in Japan, coastal ranges of the West coast USA. The info sheet from the assay said it is commonly found in association with Jadeite. Also can be a lavender color. Basically a grayish-green color in my area, but is supposed to be bluish.

The same stone wet, so markings show up better.


If you think of it as a bird. Maybe hawk, on the left end where the lower and upper beak curves meet...you will see a Weeping Heart symbol carved into it.

Lakota Indians still use a plus sign shape ( + ) 4 directions symbol. At one end above the eye (hole) is another raised standing warrior shape. Probably represents North, direction of Earth and the warrior. Over standing warrior shape is another ( + ) 4 directions symbol making the warrior appear almost diamond shape.

[Eretik]

sorry,I meant more info. on the 'Weeping Heart'.That you find runic and other interesting inscriptions is fascinating also.

[[cherokeewind]]

Sorry, wasn't quite finished on the post, had to leave a few minutes. It is found on the Lakota pipe axes and hawks. Must be for the warrior. The heart is an ancient symbol going back to ancient times. It represented the womb, fertility. Buffalo horns make it associated with North, warrior, Earth.

Heart as a symbol
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heart_%28symbol%29
You know, I can't find anywhere mentioned as a fertility symbol. This is something Wicca schools used to teach.
In fact from Wikipedia (above)

However, more realistic depictions of human hearts tend to have macabre connotations of death and violence, quite unlike the concepts associated with the poetic and symbolic heart.

I tried Wilkipedia for Lakota Weeping Heart and it came up blank. So, I tried Google, my post here came up in the results. The other places it showed up was Native weapons, war.

I've never really seen any info on it. I know what they use it on, smoking axes. Also just plain Tomahawks that were used as a weapon.

Native Tomahawk, shows the peace pipe one.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tomahawk_%28axe%29

I think Weeping Heart is specifically a Lakota trademark, so everyone will know it is Lakota. I've only seen it on blades. Someone who is Lakota could probably explain the origin of the symbol.

I've used my Tomahawk pipe with the Weeping Heart mostly in healing ceremonies. To me it is a "healing heart" and is good for the heart.

[Grim Wraith]

I'm sorry but I have to point this out. This thread has a ton of very extended posts. All I have to say to your question, other than it is not a stupid one, is that there is not that great of a difference other than both practice different beliefs. I cannot remember which, but one respects nature and will not eat meat, the other respects natural action and will eat outside of a vegetarian diet. One practices black/white/red magiks while the others, only white. Just a few differences and people flip out. But nonetheless they are different and that must be noted.