Spirit form

[Ashrend]

Does your spirit form have to be human, or can it take different forms both at will or just as something else aa its natural state?

fire and flames

[SpiritTalker]

I first interpreted your use of the word "spirit" to be astral body...like shape shifting often referenced in witch trial records. Then I wondered if maybe you meant the spirit at death...which is of the nature of the deceased. What did you have in mind?

[Ashrend]

Astral body

fire and flames

[SpiritTalker]

Ah..okee dokey. From what I've read in the last year or so of Carlo Ginzburg's research on the witchcraft trials, the astral form can be seen as various animal forms or as human. His interpretation was that the astral form resembled mice as it escaped the mouth of the traveler, and assumed shapes similar to a hare or cat. So it seemed sort of vague, and whispy with quick movement like those animals have. At least that's my impression of what he was writing. The scholarly style is hard to read.

I also read some other anthropologist's work...the author's name escapes me...on his work with a Peruvian shaman who could astral project in the image of a leopard, and be seen by others as that form. I sadly don't remember if it was stated why he did so. I'd think why is as interesting as how. The "how" may have to do with how much a person identifies with their spirit-animal. A close relationship would probably effect the taking of one shape over another, and I'd think a shaman would work pretty closely with his spirit animal...maybe mid-european village witches had spirit familiars who were human or animal, which effected their shape shifting too.

[Shawn Blackwolf]

In the Tradition I work with and teach , there is an
arrangement of two columns of eight symbols each...

One set of eight , adds to 603...

The other , adds to 391...

The first set , fit together , makes the shape of the
skeletal , or muscular system of the human body...

Yet , by number value :

Runic Skeleton = 603

Blood = 604

Looking At Astral Body Shape = 604

Holy Guardian Angel = 604

Yet :

Shaman = 390

Portal = 390

Inner Light = 391

Astral Body = 392

In the first column second symbol down , can mean
phase shifting , among other meanings...looks like
a diamond , with a line through it , vertically...

Has a " G , or J " letter value , pronounced Yar...

Two of them , make the shape , rounded out , of
a cat's eyes , pronounced J'Yar G'Yar...( Jaguar )...

Halfway down the column , are two symbols , looking
like an "M" , over a "W"...the teeth of the J'YarG'Yar...

( remember , the whole column adds to "Blood" )

Well , one time , at a hot spring , someone "stole" my
short Blackthorn staff...I believe it was a Mason I had met
there , playing a game with me...

I let security know...they could not find it...I waited three days ,
putting out the word it was missing , and wanted it back...

Then , in the middle of the third night , I performed a ritual ,
phase shifted , by emulating jaguar's movements , on ground ,
and if you make the sound of the symbols "correctly" sounds just
like a jaguar giving "warning"...or ready for attack...

Then went to sleep , and "forgot about it"...

Next morning security came to see me , with my staff...

Somehow , in middle of night , during their patrol ,
someone had returned it to their office , leaning against
wall , with a note..."I'm sorry"...

That was good enough for me...

But you can use those symbols , running as an algorithm
in the mind , to phase shift into any astral shape...

All is waves , number , pattern , frequency...

Years of preparation , to get there to that point...

Yet , it may , and has , been done throughout the aeons...

That help ?

[SpiritTalker]

Uh-yeh. That clears it right up.... I'd like to take a guess, if i may, that the process you've given is the "how" and possibly a divination form (for lack of the proper word) serving as instruction or a means to locate the "why", which is the five-finger discounted rod. And the jaguar would be the astral form that probably scared the crap out of the would-be thief.

It tickled a memory of something I'd seen once, wooden pegs somewhat like dominoes, placed in two columns on the sand. It was "read" like an encoded message to the astral mind. ... Like Tarot cards are read, or intuitively understood. The dots and lines were read like a card-reader would interpret the Tarot pictures.

From your description it seemed that the symbols suggested the jaguar astral shape. So then I'm off in thinking it would be the astral body identifying with the spirit animal, if the symbols dictated the astral shape of jaguar. But you still had to enact the stealth and sounds, still had to program the shape to be taken, by acting it out.

[Shawn Blackwolf]

You followed the "thread" very well , through the labyrinth of words ,
Spirit Talker......( believe me , I am trying to put a highly complex
reality , and system , into "simple" terms )...lol

I shall explain the code more in another thread , dedicated to it...
( with ability for any to ask questions )...

Yet , knowing the code , I knew how to project the astral body
in the shape of the Jaguar...however , same code , would allow
me to choose fox , or raven , or...just different symbols , different
sounds , different ways of motion...those motions , are symbols ,
on a two dimensional plane , brought into three and four D...

Plato called the symbols , "like shadows on a stone wall" , to
paraphrase his statement...flat representations of higher
dimensional states...stick figures , brought to life...

Yet , what if the same symbols , by arrangements of sets ,
had number value , and one could use them to "see" the
matrix underlying "reality"...( The Sight )...

In your post you describe a "divination " system...

I believe you are speaking of "Ifa"...

I was recently speaking to a Yoruban priest , online
about Ifa , and how the word , and system came
from our code...I mentioned the two columns
of eight , and he said Ifa had sixteen pieces to
the system...I told him what the word Ifa meant
by letter value - symbol meaning , in the code , and
he said that was exactly what Ifa was said to mean...

And that it's knowledge was a gift from deity...

Going back to the Jaguar...think of someone building a
creature for a film in 3D...making a "grid like mask" ,
and fitting it over a scanned human face...

That is the essence of the shapeshifting...

And then to activate the algorithm , as you stated in the last paragraph...

Basically , we run programs...our minds , our bodies...

Binary ( on - off ) and Algorithmic ( flow ) patterns...

Our cells operate this way , the growth of a fetus in the
womb , waking up , going through the motions of the day...

Know the binary code , and algorithm for what you need , or
desire to do , download it into the system if it is not already
there , then run that program...

All magic , and ritual , Craft , or otherwise , is based on this...

Drawings on a stone wall , of hunting , and killing an animal , were
primitive forms of displaying an algorithm , that then , with ritual
in the cave , song , fire , dance movement , set in motion the tribe's
consensus reality , or coherent thought frame , and brought it to pass...

Where coherent thought frame was missing...the likelihood was less likely
that the program would be activated , and the underlying mainframe of
the universe would respond...

In our code , the word :

Will = 267

Matter = 267

Sonics = 267

It Will Be Data Stream + Change = 266

Thus , a mindframe , plus application of the will ,
with intent spoken and "seen"...visualization...

Has an effect on the matrix you are and live in...

Best way I can put it before cappuccino and mocha...

[Wolf]

So the short answer to your question it yes, you can project in various forms if you have an affinity for those forms. Some people can do it more easily than others, some can't at all, but it depends on the person and their natural abilities.

[SpiritTalker]

@SB - Donning an astrally constructed 3D mask is exactly what I was picturing.

Your will/matter/sonics reminds me of my (think it-feel it-say it-let go) form of programming, or directing blue fire. So we seem to circling round on a similar page.

I'll have mocha.

@ Binxyhollow - I beg your pardon for hijacking your thread.

@Wolf- that's the concise, short form.