The 13 Principles of Wiccan Belief

[WitchyLady506]

There's actual 161 rules or laws to Wicca, it's just that most Wiccans don't know about them and those who do don't even begin to follow them. http://www.everythingunderthemoon.net/wiccan-laws.htm

There's a nice link for you^_^

And from Wiccans trying to associate all other religions and especially paganism in general with itself, I understand that completely. I understand that in some ways most of them are trying to better relate beliefs, but others are just trying to say that Wicca is the true religion because of these things that Wicca has in common with other religions. They forget that Wicca is a hodge podge of other religions to begin with and that's why all those similarities are there.

[WhiteOne]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Witch_%28etymology%29

This is a link to Wikipedia's discussion about the etymology of the word "witch." Obviously, although Wiccans do not have to perform magic, it is central to this believe system. I see Wicca as witch craft with a small set of defined ethics which are unique to Wicca.

But as you can see--the word "Witch" derives from "Wicca", so it may not be worth getting panties tied into a bundle about the interchangeability of the words.

I do agree that not all witches are modern Wiccans. I, personally, adhere to Wicca in the way that it was described by Starhawk. Since Wicca has no "Pope" to slap the rules down and tell us which Wiccans are right and wrong--I don't feel that I have anything to fear.
The reason why Wiccans can say "Oh---the Goddess did this, or looks like this, or whatever--but you don't have to believe it" is because we are the Goddess. We are the God. Humans name the Goddesses and Gods, we color them in, we fill them with stories--because we are trying to relate to the divine mystery, which is easier to relate to in a quasi-human form such as a god, nymph, or mythological creature. There are millions of manifestations of the Goddess--and none of them are wrong. All the stories we have about Gods and Goddesses were written by humans--we just forgot our relationship with these stories. The stories are not dead and "true", like the Bible. But they can change, because just as Ovid created his version of the myth of Daphne and Apollo, two thousand years ago--I can interpret that myth and change it--bringing it alive to do it's job for me.

I don't know why anyone would want to make Wicca an "official religion." Part of it's vitality is that it is ever changing, and evolving, like life. I fear it could become old and dead if it were legitimized and standardized.

[shadowx]

the word "Witch" derives from "Wicca"

Woah there.....

you do realise that wicca as a religion is about 60 years old? Jesus christ....

Wicca is a young, immature weak religion. It is NOT witchcraft, it NEVER has been witchcraft and it NEVER will be. It is a COMPLETELY separate term, meaning and religion.

It is like saying that Christianity IS prayer. Its completely different. Witchcraft is an action, it is nothing more than an action. An act of altering energy and projecting it. Wicca is a set of rules, regulations, SET beliefs and ideas. To say the two are even REMOTELY similar is both an insult and a stupid remark.

I see Wicca as witch craft with a small set of defined ethics which are unique to Wicca.

Then you have no idea what witchcraft and/or wicca really is.

Wicca IS a religion, its weak, its empty and it is immature but it IS a RELIGION. Witchcraft is an ACT. Wicca is a religion involving belief in a god and goddess. A SUPREME god and goddess called the lord and lady, or god and goddess. A belief in the afterlife involving the "summerlands" or reincarnation. A belief that one should literally harm none. "Unless in defence" is something added on and i will concede that you could interpreted the rede in such a way. A majority of wiccans believe in things like fairies and other make believe creatures, the idea that the elements exist literally and that they are assigned to a direction.

they are SET beliefs, if you dont believe all of them, or at least 90% then you arent a wiccan. It would be like calling yourself a christian except not believing jesus was born from the immaculate conception or that jesus wasnt really the sun of god but just a man who had been sent a message or that angels dont really exist. you cant be a christian and not believe those things. Its central.

Wicca is the same, if you want wicca to be a religion it MUST have central beliefs and ideologies that its believers MUST believe and agree with. If it doesnt have that then it is nothing.

You claim that witch comes from wicca, but in fact witch comes from witch. Back in the day wicca DID mean witch. As a term. Instead of calling someone a witch you would call them a wicca. Then the term died out, along comes gardner who invented wicca and he needed a word to call his new religion, Wicca is a nice convenient term. He can pretend that it existed for a long time because of the etymology.

Wicca and witchcraft is so different that it enrages me that anyone would believe otherwise. Newcomers sure, if you have only known of wicca for a week then fair enough but damn....

This is a somewhat undirected rant but since you suggest that wicca = witchcraft...... well it doesnt. End of and i am insulted that you would suggest i am wiccan, or even that the path i follow comes from wicca.

[WitchyLady506]

I see Wicca as witch craft with a small set of defined ethics which are unique to Wicca.

Small set of defines ethics? There's 161 of them how is that a small number? Maybe it's a small number that the majority of wiccans know about, but 161 rules/laws is quite a few.

Also Wicca is not witchcraft. This would mean that witchcraft was a religion, and it's not. Like Shadowx said, witchcraft is an action, it's something that can be apart of any religion or none at all. Wicca is a religion, it may include witchcraft, but is a very small amount. As someone who partakes of several traditions of witchcraft that makes look like Wicca was just born, Wicca contains a very tiny amount of actual witchcraft.

[shadowx]

Wicca contains a very tiny amount of actual witchcraft

Amen sister!!



if you are a true wiccan you LIVE wicca, every single day of your life, every breath you take is wicca. Witchcraft is something you do perhaps once a month, maybe less.

Meditation is not witchcraft, monthly rituals are not witchcraft (unless they specifically involve spell work) etc....

[WitchyLady506]

Amen sister!!

Lol you actually remember I'm female^_^

[WhiteOne]

The "161 Laws of Wicca" were taken from Gerald Gardner's writing. And yes, many Wiccans, with the exception of Gardenian Wiccans, could care less about these "laws." This is a link to one Wiccan's views of these "laws."

http://wicca.timerift.net/laws/old_laws.shtml

The small amount of guidelines that I was talking about wasn't Gardner's "Old Laws," but the more commonly acknowledged Wiccan Rede. Which is a small---small---guideline. A link to the Rede and commentary.

http://wicca.timerift.net/rede.shtml

Wicca is not like Christianity in many ways. Christianity has a designated set of profits which are alleged to be historical figures--Wicca has none. Christianity has an old book which it believes contains the words of God--Wicca does not. Christianity is one of the largest religions in the world and has a huge amount of infrastructure--Wicca is and does not.
Wicca is very different from Christianity. Here is a link to another page on this website, which hopefully will illustrate the accepting and flexible nature of Wicca.
http://wicca.timerift.net/wiccans.shtml

These links I am adding do not lead to some Wicca Guru/Pope/Layer-Down-of-the-Law---because there is none. However, I think this person has explored these concepts in a reasonable way.

As I said before, my favorite Wiccan thinker is Starhawk. She is not all about "Awwww--cute little fairy and gremlin..." Her philosophy on Wicca is actually quite intelligent.

[shadowx]

You didnt reply to my main point, that wicca is COMPLETELY different from witchcraft...

Wicca too has structure, that was my analogy between the two religions, that they both have structure. To be a religion it MUST have structure.

Anyhoo, i await your response to my first line...

[WhiteOne]

I agree with you, Wicca is different from Witchcraft. I personally believe that Wicca, as a movement, is rather young--and it is associated with a set of specific, although flexible, guidelines.
I think you were succinct in saying that witchcraft is an act--and it has been reportedly used by people all over the world--many of them do not have anything to do with the modern concept of "Wicca."

[love beats all (;]

Wicca DOES have a very diverse following, I.e.: A friend who decided to become Wiccan right after I started studies takes the belief to the extreme. She saw mist/fog in the woods and called 'NYMPH!'...what? After failed attempts to try to explain other causes she briefly scorned me for my lack of belief. I personally don't indulge in the folklore side of Wicca (even though that is a vast amount of the belief system). I believe that life lessons and morals maybe learned from the ancient stories but they're not to be taken as literal. More recently my friend was telling people that Wicca pre-dates Christianity, I briefly disagreed and told her what I knew about Gardener and how Doreen Valiente's work on how ancient the religion was has come to be known as flawed and disproven. Again, another 'non-believer' spew. She also absolutely despises Christianity and mocks Jesus just to start trouble around her family. I see her as someone who will eventually grow (hopefully) out of this phase, but sadly enough her actions probably mirror those of a good number of Wiccans. Thusly, I am starting to see myself as a Sensible-Wiccan or eclectic pagan. Just a little rant that I thought would fit into the conversation xD As for witch coming from wicca, wicca is an old English term for a male witch which was later given the term as a name for what is now the Wicca religion. (= hope I intelligently contributed to this thread

[JuniperBerry]

Wicca DOES have a very diverse following, I.e.: A friend who decided to become Wiccan right after I started studies takes the belief to the extreme. She saw mist/fog in the woods and called 'NYMPH!'...what? After failed attempts to try to explain other causes she briefly scorned me for my lack of belief.

I'm a cynic who usually finds a practical answer first...but I don't have a problem with what your friend did here.

The spirits of the earth are alive. They don't approach us as fully-formed human beings because they aren't. It's also known that the Gods do not approach us in this way- they are a soft breeze that rustles the leaves, or a strong gale, or a stranger on a corner that says something coincidental to you. The rain or fog or mist is the Vanir, just because it doesn't take shape and give you words of wisdom doesn't mean it's not the spirit. We honor them for existing, for being what the are in nature, for giving our world scientific order so that we can live. We don't only honron them when they step from their true nature and prove themselves to us. Something that will never happen, because it's nto what they are.)

Basically, we don't honor nature when it's supernatural. We honor nature for being natural.

[Serendipity]

Wicca is a religion.

Wicca does have its own dogma, or if you prefer rules. They are few and far between (at least when compared to other major religions) but there are some, the most obvious being the, “An ye harm none live as ye will.”

Most (and by most I mean almost all, in 36 years I’ve met one Wiccan who didn’t practice magic), Wiccans do practice magic but that isn’t a requirement of the religion.

I hope none of us here “hate” anyone or anything with a few obvious exceptions like pedophiles and such. I’m sure none of us here want to propagate the problems of intolerance and hate that seems to be sweeping across the world.

Part of the problem with all of this confusion of terms is the fault of our own community. Since some people found the internet, or started watching Charmed and such crud, they’ve become instant experts. It takes a little more than that to become a true authority.

To borrow from, and slightly bastardize, what was written by Evelyn Beatrice Hall in 1906:
I disagree/dislike what you say and will respectfully disagree with it, but will defend to the last keystroke your right to say it. Within the limits of the board as established by the board owner of course. *wink*

[JuniperBerry]

Hee. I like Evelyn's version of Voltaire.

[JuniperBerry]

"And it harm none, do what you will" isn't about avoiding harm in all of your actions, IMO. (Not to suggest anyone here thinks otherwise.) You're going to hurt someone, it's inevitable. If you get the job (through spell) you've hurt the person who didn't but who also applied. If you cast a love spell, you hurt the person who also loved the object of your desire. No man is an island. Every action you make will effect someone positively and negatively. The point is to not cast your will intentionally to hurt someone i.e health, death, revenge, financial ruin. You can look out for you and your's and do what you think is best, but to hurt for the sake of hurting is taboo... in Wiccan lore.

[Serendipity]

Hee. I like Evelyn's version of Voltaire.

While Voltaire is widely credited with that quote nobody can actually find where he wrote it or any record of when he actually said it. It is believed that Ms. Hall simply put into succinct words what Voltaire meant. If I’ve missed a discovery of his actually saying that please show it to me as I would feel bad about not crediting him with his own work. Thanks!